News
flash. The All Black are now a political organisation. Previously they
were a national institution. Whether you liked them or disliked them
(like me), you could not consider them beholden to any political party
or organisation. That line has now been crossed. If you support or enjoy
watching the All Blacks, you support John Key and the government. That
is unequivocal. Taika Waititi. I saw you
post photos of tickets for an All Blacks game you attended recently. I
would like to know what you think about this recent development and John
Key's usage of the All Blacks for his re-election campaign. Taika, do
you still support the All Blacks? I'm sorry to be pushy, but this is an
important question. NZ is in a desperate state.
- You, Harry Silver, Mark Harvey, Mark Hanson and 18 others like this.
Taika Waititi I don't really know what you're talking about but it sounds like I'm not allowed to like the All Blacks anymore. Can I just like individual players or are they all Nats now?
Sarah Jane Teurakura Parton Are you referring to this, Ron? http://www.listener.co.nz/.../politics-is-just-like-the.../
www.listener.co.nzJohn Key on Labour?s 4% unemployment target: ?I can have a dream of becoming an All Black, too.- Sarah Jane Teurakura Parton But then maybe Taika's supporting the Internet Party? http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1...
www.nzherald.co.nzKim Dotcom put on an impromptu pool party to celebrate the All Blacks victory an... See More 
Ron Hanson I'm talking about this. The election campaign is in full swing it seems https://www.facebook.com/pmjohnkey/photos/a.10150162547855429.346317.12635800428/10152606072995429/?type=1&theater
Richie is looking a little bemused, but it’s all in the spirit of backing the boys. Catch Rugby News this week. #teamkey, I wish.By: John Key- Sarah Jane Teurakura Parton Wow. That's gotta be illegal under the Electoral Act... Grant Robertson?
Mark Hanson I don't recall this kind of endorsement taking place in the Helen Clark years, especially so close to an election. However, I'm a baseball fan and never paid close attention to the All blacks so could be wrong.
- Ron Hanson it's definitely a bad photoshopjob - i mean you'd expect more from a high school student. But it is the All Black, the captain. It's like something out of North Korea. It conflates the success of the All Blacks with the success of Key. After all he's their biggest fan. it's like it's all been made possible because of him. But beyond that the All Blacks are supposed to be something all New Zealanders can feel proud of without having to deal with partisan politics. It
- Ron Hanson it's meant to be one of the things that brings New Zealanders together. to do this in an election campaign is astounding. it's an abuse of his power
- Sarah Jane Teurakura Parton Taika's my friend, and that photo of All Blacks tickets was taken on my dining room table, for a game Taika took my partner and another friend to a month or so ago. I think you're drawing a long bow here Ron by suggesting that Taika's excitement over free rugby tickets a month before John Key appeared on that cover equates to him supporting the National Party. One of my kids plays rugby, and at a grassroots level this sport is one of the last vestiges of egalitarianism in Aotearoa. At the top it's one of the few areas where those from the increasingly impoverished Pasifika diaspora visibly excel. It's not useful to attack anyone enjoying and supporting rugby - this blatant disregard of NZ law requires a targeted critique aimed at those who engineered and directly participated in it.
Lukasz Pawel Buda Ron Hanson Do you watch American movies? Then you unequivocally support American foreign policy.
Jens Mueller NZ is in a great state. We are outperforming many much larger countries economically and in the quality of our support for the needy.- Taika Waititi Ron Hanson, look man, I kinda get (not really) where you're coming from. But to me one of the biggest injustices in the world is the fact that no one has caught Tupac's killer yet. I know you feel the same way, man! I also know a few All Blacks who want to know the truth too and I think solving this mystery this can bring us together. Also, do you like the rap group Public Enemy? I personally love them. I also love the movie The Wiz. Can you see me? I'm behind you. Boo.
- Thomas Kaminski Yeah Jens, you're right. Our banks are making record profits. A shame that a growing number of our people can't pay the fees though. Or the rent, power, water and food bills. But as long as YOU believe everything is fine, who's to complain?
- Jens Mueller Our businesses earn profits for their shareholders, many of whom are Kiwis, and profits are always the smallest part of operating costs, the majority remains in NZ for wages, rents, services etc. Increases in pose have been considerably less under the current Government than under the prior 9 years of Labour pain. Is there anything factual you want to offer, or just emotive ranting?
- Taika Waititi Also, I played rugby and now I have a kid and I'm really really rich! Stereotypes RULE!!!
- Thomas Kaminski @Jens: "I always learn so much from my fellow PHARMAC board directors" Is there anything else you have to say about how well NZ is doing or are you just another wealthy neoliberal prick?
- Jens Mueller It may well be, but us New Zealanders certainly life in relative comfort compared to many people in Europe, the Americas and Asia.
- Thomas Kaminski That's where you are wrong. Just because YOU live in relative comfort doesn't say anything about the rest of the country. Read the stats and facts.
- Jens Mueller Our unemployment is lower than elsewhere, our health access is better than elsewhere, our benefits are more substantial than elsewhere...
- Thomas Kaminski ...and before referring to 'us New Zealanders': May I ask how long you have been 'one of us'??
- Jens Mueller More than 20 years. Are we now discriminating on how much Kiwi you need to be, before you can comment?
- Taika Waititi Ron Hanson!!! Come back and take control of your weird thread! It's being taken over by people who think there's a difference between National and Labour!!!
- Thomas Kaminski Yeah, reading too many National election posters. Almost a quarter of our children live in poverty, does that make you feel comfortable living in comfort? No, I am not discriminating, just making sure you're not just straight of the boat. Ex-CSU-waehler, wie?
- Thomas Kaminski @Taika: Yes, I think there is a difference between Labour and National. But I don't believe this difference big enough to make enough of a difference...
- Jens Mueller What's a CSU? We have one of the best and generous benefit programs of any OECD country, so it is hard to accept that we are not doing what we can do.
Sean Barnes so the leader of nz is not allowed to support our national team. His picture was photo shopped- Jens Mueller Yes, as an All Blacks fan, I am very happy with the Prime Minister supporting the team's efforts. Good on him.
- Thomas Kaminski Hehe, you guys are just too much. There is a difference between supporting the national sports team and USING the national sports team to promote your own political purposes. But I am not surprised you can't see the difference.
- Thomas Kaminski ... and that is, of course, a valid argument for your economic gospel in light of child poverty? You are a shining example of what is wrong with this country...
- Ron Hanson cikey, just woke up and don't even have time to absorb all this. Lukasz Pawel Buda, i don't watch American movies. Don't let me get started on those. I'll only make more enemies in New Zealand. I would like to know what Richie thinks of this. Does he support John Key (I mean really, because publicly, he's just provided Key his best propaganda prop of the election). Taika, I'm really not into National or Labor and policy wise there's very little between them. But Key has got to go. He's turning NZ into the laughing stock and driving out all the things i love about the country. I don't think the All Blacks publicity coup should be allowed to play with Key's base without being countered.
- Ron Hanson haven't been to a Hollywood movie in about 10 years. I live in Asia where the propaganda isn't aimed at me. It's refreshing when you're not part of the target audience for the the effective brain-washing.
- Jens Mueller If you live in Asia you would see first hand how much worse citizens are off there, compared to NZ
- Ron Hanson and i'm not just talking economically, people actually give a shit here. there's life, thought, discussion,
- Ron Hanson i love seeing New Zealanders here too. I meet more great people from NZ now than when i was living in Wellington. there's plenty f people passing through
- Ron Hanson but the issue of this thread is NZ, and what has happened to NZ politics. How the Prime Minister can use the All Blacks as props for his election campaign, and how Richie and the boys choose to go along with it
- Ron Hanson so this is an act of generosity on his behalf? sorry, i take everything back. how lucky we are to have this glorious leader!!
Richard Benjamin Solomon Keys Ron your political critiques are somewhat pallid in my opinion.
I wrote out a huge geo-political critique of capitalism in both it's "western"/neo-liberal and oriental/totalitarian modes... in response to one of your posts the other day but deleted it because I just didn't think you'd listen - my idea was to try and situate your statements about NZ politics within a broader context... but as you keep hammering on the same tune here goes....
My feeling is that your reading of NZ politics is fairly superficially based in personal experience... in the sense that given your perspective of what you think you are doing re White Fungus and the arts (i.e your idea of what art is and can do or achieve within a political context), and that it did'nt take off as well as you would have liked in NZ, and the subsequent success of the project as based in Taiwan colors your reading of the situation to a large degree.
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In terms of political critique lets just say that to my eye.... one of the things that is problematic to your critique is that it makes recourse to the reality principle, in the sense of reference to historicized notions of democracy (via the concept of the nation), which have long since decayed into mere formality in actuality... whilst "power" in any sense that we can meaningfully trace it has been out-sourced to increasingly trans-national structures that transcend the state and the business sector, as well as the various spheres of trans-national governance etc etc...
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Without getting into that sought of nitty gritty critique of political-economy which frankly I'm not interested in going into here... let's put forward a different & slightly more playful reading of the Key phenomenon.
What makes Key so successful is exactly what you critique him on... he embodies and performs his role with a certain absurdity and without resource to "reality" in the sense of notions of democratic or political discourse... note his politics of amensia... "I don't know"... "I cant remember"...
His failed hand-shake is a enactment of the latent "truth" of the situation - he could just stand there but instead he attempts to absurdly get in on the action... the meaning is the same. The failure is laughable yet it somehow makes him more compelling...
His performativity in all its absurd horror... this is part of what makes him successful...
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As a couple of students of mine pointed out in a tutorial once... in his debated with John Campbell about the GCSB... that whilst he didn't answer any of Campbells concerns seriously... he still one the debate.... by reframing the conversation.
This is what make him such a succesfull politician in this era of consumer capital...
Politics of amnesia...
Politics of disappearence...
... as spectacle etc...- Richard Benjamin Solomon Keys So I think yes your point of observation is correct in a sense but what it "means" is the reverse...
- Ron Hanson Jens, so one you leave the two islands you're no longer a New Zealander? Actually i'm doing plenty on behalf of NZ, people in NZ just don't know about it. Key is my leader, but i'm not a happy camper.
- Ron Hanson Richard. come visit Asia, i'll show you round. the world is a complicated place. but if you think there's more freedom to live the life you want in NZ, then we're on different planets
- Richard Benjamin Solomon Keys Ron I would like too come to Asia -will at some point in next year or two-, and would happily take you up on your offer.
I live the life that I want... but I don't think we have the same notion of freedom.Increasingly I tend to think that all forms of power are illusory. As with value...
This is a radical freedom. Geography has no bearing on it...
& your either or question is a bad put-on...
I am trying to fold this image of thought out of it's impasse... - Ron Hanson i do agree, Richard, that the bufoonery and fuck-ups make him more endearing to the public, a little like the Bush did in America. but Key really isn't that formidable. he's just got the deck stacked in his favour
- Richard Benjamin Solomon Keys No I don't think he is... but I think he is a politician for this era... as is Berlusconi...
I think I'd need to unpack this topic more with you in a different format (not on Facebook and it's dialogue-form) to make much headway though...
Here's Zizek talking on/around some of these topics...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KvjGOncSyHM
Philosopher Slavoj Žižek argues that unless we think about a radical new beginni... See More - Richard Benjamin Solomon Keys I would say Obama is a interesting example as well - his hollow recourse to social-democratic notions...
The democratic mode of war under Obama vs the Republican for example... troops vs drones, outsourcing the torture chambers to Poland or wherever... - Ron Hanson you should visit Asia, some exciting stuff is happening here. it's no political utopia but it's an exciting place for art. And for me that's critical. You're right that my experience of NZ and the fact that our project couldn't take off there colours my experience. But our project wasn't just about us. It was about dealing with NZ culture and history in an in-depth and critical way. It was also about the idea of exporting NZ art to the world. There was very little interest in either of those two things. so i am thankful to find somewhere where the interest is sufficient. It's good to be somewhere where people care about what's going on around them. I just didn't feel that by-in-large in NZ. But NZ did me a favour. If we had been able to stay, we never could have made our dream happen - and now it is happening. I would still like to see a change of government in NZ however. But if NZ is going to continue going in this direction, then it looks like i won't be setting foot on the two islands too often for the rest of my life. I don't want to buy an expensive plane ticket to go somewhere that makes me feel depressed. there's so many places to go that are cheaper, closer and more vibrant, But if NZ did muster the energy to turn it round, i'd love to be involved
- Ron Hanson i have a lot of problems with Zizek too, but facebook is not a good place for talking about philosophy
- Richard Benjamin Solomon Keys For one I think your idea of art in a sense of it's political relevance/effect is very different to mine... by unlarge art in the era of consumer capitalism is to my eye commodity rarified to the highest order... the artist or the cultural producer is a embodiment of the neo-liberal subject par excellence.
I.E the Anti-Oedipal subject is with hir "liberated" desire the ultimately prosumer...
See Baudrillard's the Conspiracy of Art and DeLillo's Mao 2... as texts that chart this territory... - Richard Benjamin Solomon Keys I would also say that from a more traditional Marxist perspective the "developing nations in Asia" are likely places for a proletariat revolt etc... given the exploitation of workers and emerging middle-classes etc...
- Richard Benjamin Solomon Keys The response to this phase of development in the West was of course a further refinement of capitalism both in terms of modes of production, value, and means of control etc...
- Richard Benjamin Solomon Keys Obviously though the context is quite different though - so it will be interesting to see what happens there... in the longer term...
- Ron Hanson what you say about art and artists in the conventional role is correct, but there are alternatives. In Taiwan there are a lot of people dedicated to creating those alternatives and independent stuctures.
- Ron Hanson i like the texts you are quoting, but its important to combine this academic side with real experience. if you come over and have an amazing time, there's a lot to be learned from that.
- Richard Benjamin Solomon Keys Yes but will their efforts be appropriated... this is the key question?
I mean this is key to what I'm saying... in the West many of the forms of resistance and revolution led to the vitalization of capitalism as it negotiated them... this is part of what make capitalism such a beast...
May 68, the hippie movement etc... - Richard Benjamin Solomon Keys Again that seems absurd to me... another fold-in...
You just told me that my experience isn't real because I partially occupy a academic context...
I'm not trying to negate your experience.
But part of what I'm saying here is your privileging it heavily in your critiques... - Ron Hanson some of the will and some of them will be more resistant. but i feel in NZ almost everything has been appropriated. there's so much more of an effort here to create an independent culture. the struggle never ends, to paraphrahs Ranganui Walker, but my i want to be part of the fight, to be somewhere where people are really making a go of it.
- Ron Hanson but you sound very academic, i engage with this stuff, but from a different vantage point
- Ron Hanson i've made a decision to invest in a certain geographical location. it's take two, because we first tried it in Wellington, but this time it's working
- Richard Benjamin Solomon Keys Anti-intellectualism... and the whole thought-action binary is bullshit IMO...
Critque, resistance, action, politica agency... take myriad forms. - Ron Hanson being a philosopher is not the same as being an academic, i'm not against academics - or i'd be in big trouble - but to me academia is just another form of this appropriation which mention, or capture as i prefer to refer it as
- Richard Benjamin Solomon Keys I appreciate what you are doing. But I would be careful to see it as the be and end all you know... people are working on different avenues and different pages...
- Ron Hanson yes, and i don't want to discount all these important efforts, but too me working in the conventional structures felt futile, so i wanted to do something completely outside of it. the proof is in the pudding so to speak, but so far so good
- Richard Benjamin Solomon Keys This is particular acute to me as I spend a fair bit of my time in that context... I'm also a part time publican, a curator/promoter, and a artist....
- Richard Benjamin Solomon Keys Again you are supposing a exterior that you are operating in. This is the crux of my critique...
- Richard Benjamin Solomon Keys You are suggesting you occupy a privilaged vantage point which is ontologically more significant than everyone else here?
- Ron Hanson not exterior to capitalism, but we are outside of the universities and the art industry, though we pop in from time to time as inependent agents
- Ron Hanson i wouldn't put it like that, but yes i think art, politics and society are always most effectively viewed from an outsider perspective, so call me arrogant, yes
- Richard Benjamin Solomon Keys I think again you are assuming I am some sought of professor or something...
- Ron Hanson i am an entrepreneur which makes what we're doing actually appealing to many on the right, so it's a different kind of politics
- Richard Benjamin Solomon Keys I think that whole ideal of interior/exterior is problematic.
You are involved in immaterial production/cultural production... much like myself... and many involved in this thread.
We deal in signs... - Ron Hanson i was talking about what we're doing compared to being a professor, or a curator or whatever, we're in a unique situation. we've worked hard to get here and now we have a chance to have some influence. we're creating a different kind of space
- Ron Hanson yes, it's happening. i just wish we had more of an impact on NZ. our influence is not so great there
- Richard Benjamin Solomon Keys Your convinction and belief in what your doing is a big part of your success I would imagine.
- Richard Benjamin Solomon Keys Again... I am all for what you are doing. I'm just suggesting that you should not see it as such a privilaged vantage point...
- Ron Hanson i don't know if it's privileged, it's damn hard, financially, materially, but yes, i see it as a more useful perspective and hope that more people will take the hard path and create other vantage points. that's what artists used to do. now they get MFAs and the institutional jobs. i've decrived artists these days as like domesticated pets. couln'd believe how upset people in NZ got over that. must have really struck upon something
- Richard Benjamin Solomon Keys Anyway I'm done now. Let's discuss the aesthetic, political and philosophical connotations of this in person sometime... either when your NZ or I'm in Asia...
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I'll send you some stuff on a project we've got going on here soon which may interest you.
Over & out
XOX - Ron Hanson sounds good, keep in touch, and do hope to have you over here. i kind feel like there's a certain NZ spirit that's surviving off shore. gotta go too. just finishing a new magazine for the Asia region and organising events for Beijing and HK. always get more political when under pressure ha ha
Mark Harvey Gosh this is a long thread, I'm impressed. I don't bother with even watching the All Blacks. To me they are an overrated overly commercial institution and I find them really boring, even the homoerotic associations don't do it for me. Why don't we share the airplay with our women's teams and other codes for instance? (As my partner always reminds me.) Having said that, I don't have a problem with others being fans of them like you Taika and I understand why others enjoy them. But I definitely recommend complaining to that magazine. I understand it's not illegal to show Key like that under the electoral act. And that's probably the only thing we can do, besides other things like drawing hitler mo's on Key, while they are still for sale on the shelf, which could be a fun thing to do (but of course I don't do things like that anymore). It's funny how the All Blacks have become so important to politicians, I suppose there's always something like that - the Romans used famous gladiators for the same purpose. My own family had a major permanent feud over the first All Black team (stupid Scots, they love their feuds and honour and all that B-S). Also, I'm surprised people can see Labour as being that different from national, their voting stats say they are very similar actually. Best to vote something more honestly progressive and environmental I suggest (mind you I'm a biased Green supporter and you know what we're like).- Ron Hanson Thanks Mark, yeah, i haven't really thought too much about the All Blacks in recent times. I'm even able to forget they exist from time to time, but this publicity stunt with Key really worked me up. There's so many things that disturb me about it, but the image of NZ it puts forward is particularly disturbing, a mass culture with a pack mentality, where everyone gets behind one position. I mean we're working hard to create a more nuanced view of what has come and is coming out of New Zealand. I don't want to come from somewhere known for Lord of the Rings and rugby. the mainstream can have that, but everything else is being drowned out. NZ need to diversify culturally and fast. It's becoming a theme park of a nation, everyone waiting for the next mass craze. The gladiator comparison is something i've thought about myself. It's not the workings of a particularly sophisticated culture. There's no one i want to vote for, but i'll choose one of the smaller parties. I'm also an American and i don't vote bother voting there. But Key is really my worst nightmare as a leader. I've never gotten over NZ voting in someone from Merrill Lynch at the height of the economic crisis. And in the political discourse in NZ, Key's background wasn't even seen as relevant. NZ's anti-intellectualism really got the better of us this time. A lot of people seem to think that if they don't think about it, the situation won't affect them. But if this trajectory continues, NZ is culturally finished.
- Ron Hanson i'll probably go Greens too, i think everyone needs to get into this things. The Nats know how to win elections. They just put the left to sleep. it's so boring you barely notice the elections is even on. they get the turnout really low and clean up. politics is about a lifetime of battles. even if we lose this election, a strong effort will put us in a better stead for the next one. and there could be an upset if everyone isn't in a deep sleep
- Ron Hanson Eric B & Rakim is more my cup of tea, Rap and Hip Hop lost me once it started glamorizing gun violence, money $$$$, and to use the terminology "hoes"
- Ron Hanson i don't was heading into in a troll, I'm genuinely interested in comunicating with a wide range of people
- Ron Hanson I'm sick of this thing in cuture these days where any kind of discussion or debate has to have a winner / loser. There can't be. What is interesting is to learn about one another's positions.
- Ron Hanson I feel like i should qualify this post a little. I grew up in Wellington and Taika, was already a big star way back when, but from my enounters, he didn't have an ego, was nice to people and had a generous spirit. I a huge respect for his talent. A lot of incredibly talent came out of Wellington in our generation it seems. So i don't have any ill intent by broaching this subject. What spurred it was direct response to the Key / All Blacks collabo which really disturbed me. Being a long way from "home" i wanted to engage in a public discussion around.
Kowhai Montgomery There is so much not to like about that image 'leader of the pack' FFS. In the context of refusing to apologise to a rape victim and calling Cunliffe 'a bit silly' for daring to be sorry about violence toward woman he is rocking an ugly form of masculinity that just has to butch it up for popularity. After all any thing to do with women is not a 'core issue'. Not real serious stuff, just identity politics and a distraction not worth getting into.- Ron Hanson i should also say that i regret that we didn't have more conversations with many of the other creative people in Wellington growing up. The thing is that everyone knew what the others were doing, and no one knew what we were doing. so those conversations never really happened
- Ron Hanson New Zealand has some serious issues now in terms of its attitudes to sexual violence. I've been shocked and surprised to see this rapid development
- Kowhai Montgomery This is not to insult the All Blacks. Just to point out that JK stamping a bit fat I AM SUCH A MAN message into our consciousness via the ABs is crass in the extreme,
- Kowhai Montgomery It is pretty worrying that he has managed to weaken Cunliffe by suggesting that attacking manhood/seeming weak somehow is the worse possible thing. That same week Christchurch's only Rape Crisis Centre closed from lack of funding with no media attention.
- Ron Hanson very alarming. i always thought NZ was such a moderate place that things couldn't get too out of hand, but now i'm starting to wonder
- Kowhai Montgomery It has occurred to me that perhaps on some level because marriage equality has passed certain element of NZ can't handle any more 'progressive change'. A kind of backlash perhaps? Although the more obvious conclusion would be that there is plenty of misogyny in our culture and challenging it that brings out the true ugly side of our culture.
- Kowhai Montgomery Women's Rugby team have won the World Cup how many times? It is just symbolic of who really counts. Even when the family violence figures are staring us in the face, this country would rather mock the guy willing to put more funding into refuge and go with the guy who is 'proud to be a man and proud of the All Blacks". (Not that I would vote for Labour anyway as it stands but still FFS).
- Kowhai Montgomery Thanks for still being engaged in what is happening here Ron, hope to make to Taiwan for a visit sometime in the next two years.
- Kowhai Montgomery I am not being an anti-rugby hipster either for the record. The point is more JK using the ABs in such a blatant and crass way.
- Ron Hanson the funniest thing is that right now my facebook page is asking me to enter my favorite sports teams, offering a choice of the All Blacks, Vodaphone Warriors and the Crusadors. I guess the algorithm must be going nuts on this post. I hope that doesn't mean i'm going to be drowned in rugby spam now. god help me!!!
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