Wells Tao
5 hrs ·
Name one artist that isn't a capitalist.
9Brit Bunkley, Tak Mtk and 7 others
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Sarah Ziessen Me
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Wells Tao What makes you not a capitalist?
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Pippa Sanderson I was going to say Tao Wells, but maybe there's something you're not telling us?😆
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Wells Tao What makes me not a capitalist?
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Wells Tao Is NZ welfare capitalist?
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Pippa Sanderson Wells Tao some people argue that even Unions are capitalist, or at least, capitalist enablers, so our chances of not being capitalists, within a capitalist system, are pretty low 🤷♀️
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Wells Tao Worker co-op's are not capitalist.
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Wells Tao Tui's lip balm is a workers co-op
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Pippa Sanderson Wells Tao artists aren't a special case. Why should they/we be?
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Pippa Sanderson Wells Tao good point, neither are timebanks
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Wells Tao not sure about timebanks. My argument goes: if you can't differentiate your base economic practice from the dominant practice which has been Capitalism, you end up perpetuating this dominance. Regardless of how much or how little you make from your art.
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Sarah Ziessen Or at least I’m a bad capitalist
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Wells Tao you have company
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Active NowTimothy McMullen Ai Wei Wei.
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Wells Tao What makes Ai Wei Wei not a capitalist?
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Active NowTerry Urbahn 🤔 all of the dead ones
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Wells Tao nope
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Wells Tao haha, dead artists are the core of capitalist art
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Active NowTerry Urbahn Wells Tao but only their estates are profiting, not the artists her/himself 😏
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Wells Tao Terry Urbahn "only their estates" you mean only the very social structure of art.
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Active NowTerry Urbahn Wells Tao no
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Wells Tao Warhol foundation, Gugenheim foundation etc etc
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Active NowTerry Urbahn But dear Andy has no idea about that stuff
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Wells Tao Andy was a lovely capitalist.
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Cliff Royal moi
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Wells Tao What makes you not a capitalist?
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Cliff Royal Im sovereign, commerce is only for creatures of statute...
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Wells Tao I don't understand, please elaborate
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Jude Ivy Banksy dont count as he has banks in his name.
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Wells Tao What makes Banksy not a capitalist?
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Jude Ivy Wells Tao exactly
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Jude Ivy He doesn't count as non capitalist
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Wells Tao I mean explain to me in your opinion what makes Banksy not a capitalist.
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Jude Ivy Nothing
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Jude Ivy Non capitalist = not a capitalist
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Wells Tao so he's a capitalist?
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Jude Ivy He cld be becos capitalists love banks.
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Jude Ivy y
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Wells Tao if you can't differentiate your economic practice from the dominant practice which has been Capitalism, you end up perpetuating this dominance. Regardless of how much or how little you make from your art.
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Jude Ivy I agree. I'm not 100% sure what his 'economic practise' is. But Im guessing he loves the mullah? I'd like to know more but it was really just a cheap joke about a capitalist called Banksy.
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Jude Ivy But pretty hard to see how artists making little money, like most, could be perpetuating capitalism.
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Wells Tao by not practicing a different economy
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Jude Ivy How can one practice a different economy whilst living under capitalism. Your ideology can be anti capitalist, but u are forced to survive in a capitalist economic systems.
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Wells Tao this is the question
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Saskia Leek Mumma's boy?
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Wells Tao huh?
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Wells Tao Is Mum a capitalist?
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Saskia Leek Wells Tao did mumma's boy not come to maryhill?
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Wells Tao what is Mumma's boy?
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Saskia Leek Wells Tao prolific tagger
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Wells Tao My argument goes: if you can't differentiate your base economic practice from the dominant practice which has been Capitalism, you end up perpetuating this dominance. Regardless of how much or how little you make from your art.
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Amanda Clow-Hewer Me.
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Wells Tao How are you not a capitalist?
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Active NowSam Buchanan Pissarro?
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Wells Tao How is Pisarro not a capitalist?
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Active NowSam Buchanan Anarchist.
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Wells Tao What was his economic practice?
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Active NowSam Buchanan Dunno. But do you mean 'ideologically capitalist' or 'stuck in a capitalist system'?
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Wells Tao both
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Active NowByron Clark Picaso was a member of the Communist Party, and Freda Karlo and Diago Riviera were both socialists
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Wells Tao Yes, but their work has gone on to promote capitalism
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Active NowByron Clark true
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Active NowSam Buchanan How so?
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Wells Tao And none of the were able to differentiate their economic practices from capitalism, which means they ended up perpetuating the status quo
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Iain Whitaker I am an artist and I believe we do for the better of many people and not just yourself. I also believe most artists take that viewpoint.
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Wells Tao What is capitalism?
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Iain Whitaker Wells Tao was that the question? Capitalism is all about profit for the gain of yourself above any others, usually without barrier other than what you can get away with before being out in prison by the law of the land or murdered by your rivals. Capitalism in a democracy is basically about exploiting politics and legislation for that gain and most importantly directing public money into private hands.
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Wells Tao What is your economic practice?
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Iain Whitaker Wells Tao perhaps you could just make your point on the main thread. I've stated my standpoint on this subject.
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Active NowBarry Thomas That's a bit like saying name one race that doesn't have ancestors in Africa...
Or name me one element that isn't chemical...
Capitalism isn't theeeeeee problem it's our species (if not life's) addiction to (read inherent structural design hankering for) progress... It literally , etymylogically means ' for a step'... And ease...
We hominids will trade our heritage for food, ranking and the ability to breed... Art ... Well that's a long way down the 'essential' list.
So artists and capitalists... Wrong question Tao...
Name a society that empowers artists who have displayed vision, collective wisdom, eg. real power... Against the prevalent oligarchy... That's a much more interesting debate IMHO.
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Wells Tao bollocks, you can choose your economic practice.
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Quinn Wilkins Wells Tao A community can, hard for an individual as one cannot exchange with themself. Isolation and starvation will result.
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Ross Forbes Being paid for what one does....one's labour and talent....isn't "capitalism" ....that's just a fair go. Capitalism in my book is being paid for what one doesn't do but what the "market" does to your product, or the product of your labour. For example if I paint a painting and it takes me one hundred hours including design or inspiration time then at $25.00 an hour if I sell it for $2500.00 then that's fair and i am definitely not a capitalist. If I then die and for some strange reason am branded a genius and the person I sold the painting to turns round and sells the painting for $250000.00 then he is definitely a capitalist.
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Active NowBarry Thomas Ross Forbes capital and property and profit. I agree the morality issues around getting something for bugger all effort but my question is people/ hominids just always seem to defer to ease... Right?.. it's easier to profit than work...
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Wells Tao if you can't differentiate your economic practice from the dominant practice which has been Capitalism, you end up perpetuating this dominance. Regardless of how much or how little you make from your art.
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Active NowBarry Thomas Wells Tao ok everyone's right now for another wine.... Oooopse that's capitalist!
Bad news is... IMHO it's way more entrenched and eel slippery than our attempts to define it... Art that is and ...
... capitalism is several magnitudes more difficult... Impossible
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Wells Tao Barry Thomas https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wLwgCLHAz0Y
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Socialism That Can Compete and Beat CapitalismSocialism That Can Compete and Beat Capitalism
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Active NowSam Buchanan I can't recall ever being paid for any art I've produced (unless you count journalism), so maybe me?
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Wells Tao What is capitalism?
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Active NowSam Buchanan Hmmm... in the context of this debate, isn't that something you should the one to be offering a definition of?
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Wells Tao I asked you
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Active NowSam Buchanan Well, capitalism is an economic system by which the owners of capital are rewarded simply for being owners, without a requirement to perform labour themselves. A capitalist is a person who controls sufficient capital to be able to live without selling their labour to another.
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Wells Tao Sam Buchanan Yes there is the Marxist definition of being a "capitalist" and "wage slave" proletariat. There is also the broader lay person def. of capitalism being our default economic practice that if you can't differentiate your 'other' economic practice from, publicly, you perpetuate.
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Active NowSam Buchanan It's a question of power.
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Wells Tao Sam Buchanan name one artist that isn't a capitalist
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Active NowSam Buchanan I did, me.
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Active NowSam Buchanan As a lay definition of 'capitalist' I would go with Carl Barks' view. He was clear that the term only applied to the property owning class, not the workers stuck in the system and powerless to change it, nor the non-working lumpen proletariat who lived by expropriating wealth from capitalists without controlling it. As one of the Beagle Boys once said "You capitalists is essential to us burglar's livelihood", clearly defining a 'capitalist' as the 'other' who was necessary to them, but seperate from them. Donald once said "Come on you fifty-dollar beauties, make me a capitalist!". Clearly his lack of capital precluded being one, 'capitalist' was an aspiration for him, not a reality.
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Wells Tao How are you not a capitalist?
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Active NowSam Buchanan As an artist, I don't get paid.
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Wells Tao My point is if you can't differentiate your economic practice from the dominant practice which has been Capitalism, you end up perpetuating this dominance.
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Active NowSam Buchanan My arts practice is different - I just give stuff away or put it out there for free.
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Wells Tao Sam Buchanan sure lot's of people do this, that doesn't make them not capitalists
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Active NowSam Buchanan Well, if you just wanted to say "There is no such thing as a non-capitalist" that has nothing to do with art, and you could have said with much more brevity.
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Wells Tao says you
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Wells Tao 79 comments and not even out of the gate
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Active NowSam Buchanan Well, you haven't refuted my definition of capitalism, nor my point that being a capitalist/non-capitalist is about power.
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Wells Tao I agreed
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Active NowSam Buchanan So somebody without power in the capitalist system isn't a capitalist.
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Active NowMark Amery You're clearly both capitalists as you seem to have a alot of time on your hands. Either that or you're unemployed 😃
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Active NowSam Buchanan Effectively, the latter.
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Helen Ruolsingpui Keivom Muy lol
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Active NowByron Clark You could make an argument that artists exist outside the standard class relationship, that would perhaps put them more in the group Marx called the lumpen proletariat- outside the working class (so not necessarily having the same interests) but not in the capitalist either (making money from property and other peoples labour)
I think a lot artists would fall into the standard class relationship however, as they sell their labour to survive, and in this case their labour is creating art
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Wells Tao Yes there is the Marxist definition of being a "capitalist" and "wage slave" proletariat. There is also the broader def. of capitalism being the default economic practice that if you can't differentiate your economic practice from, publicly you perpetuate.
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George Komarov See 4th vol. of Das Kapital
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Wells Tao George Komarov feel free to share your point
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George Komarov Wells Tao, there is no point apart from Marx already stated that majority of artists do fall into standart class relations in the 4th volume.
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Wells Tao George Komarov thanks. Can you name one artist that is not a capitalist?
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Wells Tao Marx was bound to miss a few things.
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George Komarov Wells Tao
1. I've already did,
2. It seems like by 'artist' you mean 'well known artist', since, e. g. I know quite a few artist who make a living from teaching in art schools and not from selling their paintings.
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Wells Tao George Komarov yeah but their main economy is...
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George Komarov Wells Tao, well, I can't speak for NZ, but here in Russia it means they are wage workers.
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Wells Tao George Komarov wage workers, work in a capitalist economy no?
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George Komarov Wells Tao, everybody works in capitalist economy. So...?
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Wells Tao So you are saying that there are no artists that are not capitalists.
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George Komarov No, I don't. Because if I did, I had to also say every worker is a capitalist. And fire is cold, and water is dry.
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Wells Tao there are workers co-op's. Are there no Artists that anyone knows of from these?
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George Komarov Well, again: 'anyone knows' or 'everyone knows'? Since I know an artists' co-op in St. Pete's.
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Wells Tao George Komarov is it a "workers co-op" though, as the 5 forms of co-op i know of, only one isn't captialist
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George Komarov It seems to me you purposely confuse 'being a capitalist' with 'operating in a capitalist system'. Which are not the same, with all respect.
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Wells Tao They are different, yes, but as I've said else where, they result in the same thing. Capitalism
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George Komarov Here we go again, quite everything around is the result of capitalism. It doesn't mean everyone is a capitalist. If you don't use your means of production for exploiting others' labour, you're not a capitalist, just by definition. Sorry, but please come with another name for things you're referring to, this name is already taken.
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Wells Tao I GET IT, wage slaves are not capitalists, but they still perpetuate capitalism. If you can not differentiate your economy, visibly from the status quo you perpetuate it.
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Wells Tao .. with Stockholm syndrome to your captor, capitalists.
This old game needs to die out, playing this semantic double play on the title Capitalism is a road of shit elitism. Marx was wrong about the revolution, it's not from 'them' over there 'workers' but when the teachers and preachers of socialism practice economic socialism themselves! Collective profit spent to deliver the results socialists want to see. To attract others to the practice, this already existing, in the form of the Democratic Economy. Now take it into your personal relationships. Revolution done. Just get on with it. - tw
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Active NowBeau Zah God
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Wells Tao I doubt it
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Taka Tama Me 😁😁😁😁
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Wells Tao What makes you not a capitalist?
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Taka Tama Wells Tao well as you already know .... most of my financial income has come from the support and donations of the people. Besides negotiating payments for my stage performances through written contracts and selling what little merchandise I ever have …See More
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Wells Tao My argument goes: if you can't differentiate your base economic practice from the dominant practice which has been Capitalism, you end up perpetuating this dominance. Regardless of how much or how little you make from your art.
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Taka Tama Wells Tao ok 👍🏾 .... well at least I’m not a total capitalist then aye hehehehe 😁😁😁
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Wells Tao I don't want to be a capitalist and as a welfare recipient I don't think I am. But this idea is hidden. I don't want it to hide.
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Taka Tama Wells Tao I reckon trying to be transparent and adapting yourself for whatever situation you’re in with whatever resources and council you may have. Like how many people would believe 1 year ago let alone 1 month ago that a worldwide event like this coved-19 pandemic would affect all of us like this. And if you predicted this a year ago, then why didn’t you buy yourself a lotto ticket? 🤣🤣🤣.
Anyways, just creative artists, the more you can understand and experience different entities of any sort, then the wider and expansive your perspective would be.
Like how many rich capitalist have ever lived a communist life? And how many communist have ever live a capitalist life? And yet the so called extreme idealists of these economic systems would play the CONS game at each other without ever living or experiencing each other’s lifestyle or understanding.
So a suggested question may then look like this.
What plan do you have that may lead to a suggested “comfortable” or “accepted” lifestyle?
Because isn’t that what you’re really wanting?
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Wells Tao hmmm.. I want this.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wLwgCLHAz0Y
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Socialism That Can Compete and Beat CapitalismSocialism That Can Compete and Beat Capitalism
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Wells Tao and I think i have it already
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Taka Tama Wells Tao not to be cheeky .... but have you played minecraft? You might get some form of Zao of self sufficiency, self production and embody labour out of this game maybe?
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George Komarov Michelangelo
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Wells Tao Yes perhaps only because Capitalism was not dominant at this time.
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George Komarov But technically still.
Also I think majority of not well known artists are in fact petit bourgeois, not proper bourgeois.
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Wells Tao but no, a quick search I found this: https://fee.org/art.../how-capitalism-tamed-medieval-europe/
fee.org
How Capitalism Tamed Medieval Europe | Ed WestHow Capitalism Tamed Medieval Europe | Ed West
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Wells Tao small biz owners
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George Komarov Still, Michelangelo made most of his work being hired by someone.
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Wells Tao My point is if you can't differentiate your economic practice from the dominant practice which has been Capitalism, you end up perpetuating this dominance.
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Potaua Biasiny-Tule Wells Tao The Medicis virtually invented capitalism, so yea he mahi'd for coin. So did Leo and the other Ninja Turtles lol
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Roger Boyce Wells Tao That was a good little read ... How Capitalism Tamed ...
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Hichan Kim they are little kids in kindergarten..
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Wells Tao capitalists
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Active NowMelz E McColgan Vicki Smith
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Fa'lah Phullahphèsie One human
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Wells Tao uh?
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Active NowCraig Scott Czeslaw Znamierawski
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Wells Tao https://www.wspus.org/.../russia-lenin-and-state-capitalism/
wspus.org
Russia, Lenin and State Capitalism | World Socialist…Russia, Lenin and State Capitalism | World Socialist Party of the US
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Active NowCraig Scott Wells Tao good name though ay? :)
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Wells Tao shit yeah
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Stevie McCabe Hitler
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Dave Mackie The most National of Socialists
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Wells Tao Still a capitalist
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Dave Mackie I was joking. Anyone who thinks Hitler was a socialist is an idiot.
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Dave Mackie You should define what you mean by capitalist
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Wells Tao what do you mean by capitalist?
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Dave Mackie You're the one who posed the question, sir! It's difficult to provide an answer unless we're on the same page.
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Wells Tao Can YOU name one artist that isn't capitalist? ( your definition)
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Dave Mackie I'd define a non-capitalist artist as one who provided their art absolutely gratis.
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Dave Mackie can't think of any off the top of my head
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Frederick Lepine Jandek.
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Wells Tao How is Jandek not a capitalist
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Frederick Lepine Wells Tao we don’t even know who he is.
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Wells Tao if we don't know then he defaults to the status quo
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István Ping Clover Frederick Lepine yeah we do, he "came out" 15 years ago.
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Wells Tao My argument goes: if we can't differentiate their base economic practice from the dominant practice which has been Capitalism, it ends up perpetuating this dominance. Regardless of how much or how little they made from their art.
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Naturesworst NZ George Bush
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Active NowTony St George van gogh
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Wells Tao in theory but in practice?
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Wells Tao no.
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Active NowTony St George hes like the anti capitalist
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Active NowTony St George ,,,,ear?
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Wells Tao yes, but his economic practice wasn't. I'm not an expert, his brother gave him welfare, but he was unable to publicly differentiate his economic practice from the capitalist status quo, which means he ends up supporting it.
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Tim Beatson Thread of the year, IMO. Nice work, Wells.
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Wells Tao Thanks
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Active NowMick McCrohon Banksy
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Wells Tao How is Banksy not a capitalist?
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Jerome de Bouter Mick McCrohon I would hazard that Banksy is bankrolled by now with serious money
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Wells Tao if you can't differentiate your base economic practice from the dominant practice which has been Capitalism, you end up perpetuating this dominance. Regardless of how much or how little you make from your art.
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Active NowMick McCrohon Wells Tao HOW IS HE A CAPITALIST FFS?
Banksy destroys his works rather than see them capitalised! The question is How the fuck is Banksy a capitalist!
Don't insult the boss of anti-capitalism!…See More
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Banksy Artwork Shredded After Selling at Auction May Have…Banksy Artwork Shredded After Selling at Auction May Have Increased in Value
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Wells Tao My argument goes: if we can't differentiate their base economic practice from the dominant practice which has been Capitalism, it ends up perpetuating this dominance. Regardless of how much or how little they made from their art.
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Active NowMick McCrohon Wells Tao WTF does that even mean?
"The definition of capitalism is an economic system in which the means of production and distribution are privately or corporately owned and the operations are funded by profits."
"Profit is the financial gain from business activity minus expenses."
BANKSY gives his works to the community. free gratis
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Lorina Stacey Schwenke Indigenous artists in the pacific that haven’t gone commercial but their work gets appropriated..... kids that paint at kindy and school... anyone that paints for a hobby.,, art is subjective ... we are all artists creating our own futures and destiny’s ...
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Wells Tao How are we all not capitalists?
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Jamie Scott Palmer No.
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Don Franks Me 😄
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Wells Tao How are you not a capitalist?
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Don Franks Don't own a factory full of workers producing surplus value for me to appropriate
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Wells Tao are you a wage slave within capitalism?
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Don Franks Wells Tao was until I retired
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· 4h
Wells Tao Is welfare a form of Democratic economy?
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· 4h
Wells Tao Is New Zealand's Superannuation a form of Democratic economy, and not capitalist?
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· 4h
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Michael King Cat Stevens?
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· 4h
Wells Tao How is Cat Stevens not a capitalist ?
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· 4h
Michael King he turned his back on the industry at the height of his fame and became yusuf Islam.
Not sure if he donated his royalties to charity.. doubt it..
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· 4h
Wells Tao how does that make his economic practice not capitalist?
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Stevie McCabe he's a Catitalist
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Fiona Jack A 6 week old baby is even a capitalist while modern economics reign. There can’t be a valid answer to this question. Not one I can think of anyway.
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Wells Tao Is welfare capitalist?
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Fiona Jack Of course
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· 3h
Wells Tao How?
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Fiona Jack Embedded in the system of exchange, surplus, etc. Over and out for me. Enjoy your q&a. Or q&q.
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· 3h
Wells Tao the market place isn't default capitalist
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· 3h
Kim Pieters can we have sustainable capitalism? by sustainable i mean environmentally, socially & economically sustainable. capitalism. Anti-Oedipus: Capitalism and Schizophrenia by deleuze & guattari is an interesting read with regard to capitalism. the word 'capitalism' tends to be a myth that no-one is quite sure of. as can be seen by this thread. go Wells Tao
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Wells Tao yeah great writers and yes the word capitalism is by design indicating two different ideas. But, my argument goes: if you can't differentiate your base economic practice from the dominant practice which has been Capitalism, you end up perpetuating this dominance. Regardless of how much or how little you make from your art.
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· 1h
Wells Tao Sorry I missed the part where you supported my effort! Thanks Kim. I like this bit...
.. with Stockholm syndrome to your captor, capitalists.
This old game needs to die out, playing this semantic double play on the title Capitalism is a road of shit elitism. Marx was wrong about the revolution, it's not from 'them' over there 'workers' but when the teachers and preachers of socialism practice economic socialism themselves! Collective profit spent to deliver the results socialists want to see. To attract others to the practice, this already existing, in the form of the Democratic Economy. Now take it into your personal relationships. Revolution done. Just get on with it. - tw
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Kim Pieters nice to above.... however we have a problem in that we all live in dereliction as irigaray would say. your dominant practice point reminded me of an essay i wrote once. not very long. if you are interested scroll down to the 1987 Māori Language Act on this page http://kimpietersstudio.com/meditations-on-nz-history/ it ends with the sentence...In order to begin amid humans, this civil relationship; a relation that is neither mutually exhaustive, not composed of one term and its negation; it is said we will need to make a life and an ART between us as if we were.... rebuilding the world. ))) time to be rebuilding the world. i quite like the idea of 'sustainable capitalism' myself. it should be legislated for.
kimpietersstudio.com
meditations on nz history •meditations on nz history •
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· 1h
Wells Tao
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· 6m
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Sheridan F W Dickson graffiti artists
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Wells Tao How are graffiti artists not capitalists?
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István Ping Clover She means taggers. In fact, destruction of private property could even be viewed as an anti-capitalist action.
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· 52m
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Taressa Strong Do musical artists count?
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· 3h
Wells Tao yes
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Taressa Strong I think George Michael supported communism. However no matter how much you support it we can't be communists while under capitalism
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Wells Tao maybe
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· 3h
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Kate Linzey louis Aragon - probably model for walter benjamin's "author as producer" - worked as editor to ensure voice of working class could get into print.
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· 3h
Wells Tao so.. wage slave?
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Wells Tao How is Aragon, not a capitalist?
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Kate Linzey Wells Tao worked for the work of others
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· 2h
Wells Tao who were capitalists
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· 2h
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Natasha Marie Fordyce Avida Dollars
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· 3h
Wells Tao How is Avida Dollars not a capitalist?
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Jacque Ruston Townes van Zandt
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· 3h
Wells Tao How is Van Zandt not a capitalist?
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· 3h
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Mikee Tucker Bill Withers
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· 3h
Wells Tao How is Bill Withers not a capitalist?
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· 3h
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Mikee Tucker Warren Maxwell
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· 3h
Wells Tao How is Maxwell not a capitalist?
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· 3h
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Jamie Scott Palmer Nothing wrong with a certain type of Capitalism.
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Wells Tao
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Jamie Scott Palmer Great argument. :/
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Wells Tao sorry I came prepared
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· 3h
Jamie Scott Palmer If someone wants something off me, i.e a guitar pick and they gave me 20 cents for it and I gave it to them and we both agreed on that exchange, that's Capitalism. Beautifully symbiotic trade. No argument from both of us.
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Jamie Scott Palmer You're talking about profit margins not relating to the transactors mutual satisfaction. That's the Capitalism we are at currently. Personal exchanges are individual and unique, and can be mutually satisfying, and an example of capitalism working beneficially for all involved. I see no problem with that.
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· 2h
Wells Tao if you can't differentiate your economic practice from the dominant practice which has been Capitalism, you end up perpetuating this dominance. Regardless of how much or how little you make from your art.
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· 2h
Jamie Scott Palmer I have differentiated whatever it is you're trying to say though. Described it in laymans terms so everyone can understand it.
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Jamie Scott Palmer Again, an agreed upon mutual exchange of good(s) and finance, symbiotically, equals both parties being satisfied. A certain type of capitalism.
A lot of self labelled 'Anarchists' refuse to see this fact.
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· 2h
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Wells Tao exchange markets are not default capitalist.
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Lisa Maule Trick question.
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· 2h
Wells Tao maybe
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Roger Boyce Lee Lozano.
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Wells Tao How is Lozano not a capitalist?
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Roger Boyce Wells Tao Her work was a rolling critique of the commercial, institutional, social artworld. She did not capitalize on her work.
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Wells Tao if you can't differentiate your economic practice from the dominant practice which has been Capitalism, you end up perpetuating this dominance. Regardless of how much or how little you make from your art.
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Roger Boyce Wells Tao I don't know how Lozano put bread in her own mouth, but it wasn't from art, as her art was epitomized by her walking away from it. That's it from me on the topic.
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Ron Drummond Wells Tao How would you suggest one do that?
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Wells Tao Ron Drummond https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wLwgCLHAz0Y&t=565s
youtube.com
Socialism That Can Compete and Beat CapitalismSocialism That Can Compete and Beat Capitalism
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· 2h
Wells Tao https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YI1Zw3CbTRo
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40 minutes of Brilliance in the War between Democracy and…40 minutes of Brilliance in the War between Democracy and Capitalism
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Ron Drummond Wells Tao Thank you for both of the above links. I will make an effort to watch them.
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Wells Tao Ron Drummond you'r welcome!
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Wells Tao Roger Boyce My argument goes: if we can't differentiate their base economic practice from the dominant practice which has been Capitalism, it ends up perpetuating this dominance. Regardless of how much or how little they made from their art.
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· 1h
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Active NowJames Murray Nature
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· 2h
Wells Tao "Nature is not a balanced totality that then humans disturb, nature is a big series of unimaginable catastrophes" -SZ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U9C6J2Bqj8Q...
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Slavoj Zizek - Examined Life - subtítulosSlavoj Zizek - Examined Life - subtítulos
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Jamie Scott Palmer If you're an artist and capitalist don't be guilt tripped by this hilarious post.
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· 2h
Wells Tao yes don't be guilt tripped.
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Darryl Kirk Name someone who isn't out for themselves. Then give me a system of full altruism.
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· 2h
Wells Tao What is welfare?
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Darryl Kirk Wells Tao it's not the full quid. When you have democracy, it gets exploited. Or it gets stamped on.
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Wells Tao Exploited and stamped on by capitalists
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Jenny Laycock Me
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· 2h
Wells Tao how are you not a capitalist?
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· 2h
Jenny Laycock Because I dont sell or make any money from my art.
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Jenny Laycock Or anything 😂😂😂
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· 2h
Wells Tao if you can't differentiate your base economic practice from the dominant practice which has been Capitalism, you end up perpetuating this dominance. Regardless of how much or how little you make from your art.
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· 2h
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Ron Drummond Wells, it's been so many years, I can't remember if I ever thanked you for that wonderful photograph of you holding open a copy of White Fungus 13 to the opening page spread of "The First Woman on Mars" in a bookstore somewhere down under [?]. I dearly…See More
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Wells Tao yes I just saw that. So cool you support White Fungus.
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Rahman Hak-Hagir Artists who think they are 'capitalists' because they managed to sell a piece for 10k to a Billionaire are funny Clowns. 🤡😁
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· 2h
Wells Tao it's a start
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Rahman Hak-Hagir Way to go 😉
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Glenn LaVertu There's a big difference between those who willfully, enthusiastically, engage in capitalist activities and those who are caught up in the system. Being a wage slave, working at some other job with the need to survive doesn't make one a capitalist per-…See More
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· 2h
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Wells Tao Sure, however, my argument goes: if you can't differentiate your base economic practice from the dominant practice which has been Capitalism, you end up perpetuating this dominance. Regardless of how much or how little you make from your art.
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· 2h
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Glenn LaVertu Yeah, but that's academic. Even if you can differentiate it then what? There is no viable option. Practice socialism, anarchism, communitarianism on your own? Not possible. Unless you're homeless maybe? We're all stuck. It's a spider's web.
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· 2h
Wells Tao workers co-op's aren't capitalist
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Wells Tao Tui lip balm is a workers co-op.
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Glenn LaVertu Wells Tao true, but I know few who survive.
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Glenn LaVertu Wells Tao idk that one.
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Wells Tao https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wLwgCLHAz0Y&t=566s
youtube.com
Socialism That Can Compete and Beat CapitalismSocialism That Can Compete and Beat Capitalism
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· 2h
Glenn LaVertu How many of the workers there are anti-capitalists.
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· 2h
Wells Tao i doubt any
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· 2h
Wells Tao they don't promote the fact that they are a workers co-op
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Glenn LaVertu They probably work there because its a job.
Spider web. They just got lucky.
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· 2h
Wells Tao let's get lucky
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Phoebe Gray You
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· 1h
Wells Tao Is NZ welfare capitalist? Is NZ superannuation?
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Phoebe Gray Wells Tao no, they are socialist
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Active NowThomas Carroll Clementine Hunter.
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Active NowThomas Carroll she sold her paintings for 25 cents is that within moderation Tao?
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· 1h
Wells Tao My argument goes: if you can't differentiate your base economic practice from the dominant practice which has been Capitalism, you end up perpetuating this dominance. Regardless of how much or how little you make from your art.
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· 1h
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Carmen Potter Me
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· 1h
Wells Tao How are you not a capitalist?
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Carmen Potter Wells Tao Good question. Are victims of Capitalism Capitalists?
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· 1h
Wells Tao yes
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Wells Tao My argument goes: if you can't differentiate your base economic practice from the dominant practice which has been Capitalism, you end up perpetuating this dominance. Regardless of how much or how little you make from your art.
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· 1h
Wells Tao Carmen Potter great question though thank you.
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Carmen Potter Wells Tao it's so horrible. Can't escape.
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Wells Tao Carmen Potter workers co-op's are not capitalist.
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· 1h
Carmen Potter Wells Tao true.
Is Barter capitalism?
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· 1h
Wells Tao no
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István Ping Clover Are we talking capitalism with a big C or a little c?
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· 1h
Wells Tao Both
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· 1h
Wells Tao this is something a did earlier... " Wage slave with Stockholm syndrome to your captor, capitalists.
This old game needs to die out, playing this semantic double play on the title Capitalism is a road of shit elitism. Marx was wrong about the revoluti…See More
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Jody Branson 290 comments...
that's comment capitalism
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· 1h
Wells Tao four hours of work.
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Active NowBen Vidgen Ancients of mumu https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/K_Foundation_art_award
en.wikipedia.org
K Foundation art award - WikipediaK Foundation art award - Wikipedia
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· 1h
Wells Tao My argument goes: if we can't differentiate their base economic practice from the dominant practice which has been Capitalism, it ends up perpetuating this dominance. Regardless of how much or how little they made from their art.
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· 1h
Wells Tao I am a fan though
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· 1h
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Brit Bunkley Perhaps Hans Haake, Siah Armajani (anarchist), Nadya Tolokno" and Tania Bruguera?
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Wells Tao you couldn't google that yourself?
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· 58m
Brit Bunkley Wells Tao the point is that other than perhaps the kingdom of North Korea, all nations are in part capitalist. None are 200% capitalist - all are mixed economies to some degree. Therefore to survive one needs to work within the system. But artists who aspire to anti capitalism, one could begin with many of the surrealists and constrctivist, I suppose.
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· 54m
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Wells Tao My argument goes: if you can't differentiate your base economic practice from the dominant practice which has been Capitalism, you end up perpetuating this dominance. Regardless of how much or how little you make from your art.
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· 48m
Brit Bunkley Wells Tao What do you mean by base economic practice?
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· 46m
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Wells Tao Brit Bunkley how you survive financially
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· 46m
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Brit Bunkley Wells Tao So who doesn't survive without partaking in capitalism?
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· 44m
Wells Tao Is welfare capitalism?
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· 44m
Brit Bunkley Those who are on the dole paid for by capitalism make capitalist decisions all the time... Shopping for necessities, budgeting, finding bargains, etc.
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· 42m
Wells Tao paid for by taxes created by a vote
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· 41m
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Brit Bunkley Wells Tao capitalist decisions. But the taxes are on primarily business and wage slaves, with some progression mostly from capitalist means of prduction and profit.
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· 38m
Wells Tao collected wealth to express directly NON capitalist expressions
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· 38m
Wells Tao Free health, ed etc etc
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· 38m
Brit Bunkley Wells Tao What is a non capitalist expression?
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· 37m
Wells Tao worker co-op's, free health, ed, welfare, ...
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· 36m
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Brit Bunkley Free health is also based on the means of taxing profit in capitalist system. Again those who benifit from the public good make decisions that are part and parcel with capitalism... Or more correctly since capitalism does not exist anywhere as the sole means of prduction, nor has it sine the Great Depression.. In a mixed economy.
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· 33m
Wells Tao https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wLwgCLHAz0Y
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Socialism That Can Compete and Beat CapitalismSocialism That Can Compete and Beat Capitalism
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· 29m
Brit Bunkley Wells Tao workers Co ops are rare... Perhaps the most successful in the Basque region Euskal Herria the Mondragon Corporation still operates under capitalism and uses capitalist managers... Though is was no doubt founded by a anarchist. (nobody is quite sure about the origins of the founder
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· 29m
Wells Tao Tui's lip balm is a workers co-op
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· 28m
Brit Bunkley I think that participatory economics could be workable... But how do we get to there?
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· 28m
Brit Bunkley Interesting discussion! But I got to go 😀
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· 26m
Wells Tao We are already there. We have a Democratic Socialism, I think, but it fails to distinguish it's Democratic economy, all the biz that runs off collected collective wealth (taxes) from capitalism. SO it appears that it doesn't exist.
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· 25m
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István Ping Clover It is impossible for an artist to not be a capitalist because art has no value outside of the capitalist system.
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Wells Tao All righty then.
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· 48m
Wells Tao yeah there's no art or artists in Cuba or..
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Wells Tao been 5 hours of this.. please read above comments. I have covered your argument many times
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· 33m
István Ping Clover Plenty who sell paintings to tourists, sure..
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· 40m
Wells Tao really
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· 40m
István Ping Clover In fact the only art from Cuba I've ever seen were
- paintings sold to a tourist
- expensive imported cigars
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· 37m
Wells Tao your point?
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· 37m
István Ping Clover You're holding up Cuba as existing outside the capitalist system; I'm poking holes in that.
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· 36m
Wells Tao you are?
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· 35m
Wells Tao What is capitalism to you?
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· 35m
István Ping Clover Big C or little c?
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· 34m
Wells Tao István Ping Clover start where ever you are comfortable
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· 34m
Wells Tao (sorry I'm running out of steam! )
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· 34m
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Stuart Slain What a terrifyingly glib thing to say 😔
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· 50m
Wells Tao What was said?
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· 46m
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