Criptic Critic Conscience and Known for it

Sunday, October 28, 2012

Part 2: "Even you know the arts have been completely depoliticised. Once that cat's left the bag, the bag stays empty" Converstation with New Zealand Contemporary Art Collector Jim Barr.

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  • Laura Wells I too liked this analogy
  • Wells Tao One has to ask, what does he think he's been buying, as an art collector, if the bag is empty.
  • Chris Rigby unpoliiticised art?
  • Anton L'Etranger i suspect the cat never really liked being in the bag anyway
  • Danny Butt But parliament's been completely depoliticised, so I don't really know what's special about art.
  • Anton L'Etranger g'day mate. sorry. I live in white australia. I don't know nuffing mate.
  • Burly Chassis What if the reason politics lost it's ethical dimension in the first place (if it had one) was the political hijacking of non-political spaces?
  • Barry Thomas What a defeatist "bag" of fecal matter. The reason I invented rADz, the reason Tao did the Bene Office and the reason people are invading CBD's with art and Occupational interests is simply TO GET THE CAT TO SHRED THE F...ING BAG AGAIN. Who's over curator collector dillitante commmentators heckling this nonsence from the sidelines without ever committing to what artists face daily... the cat and the bag.
  • Barry Thomas Bag war is also the reason for - Cabbage Patch, Letting space, yarn bombing, fence weaving, graffiti, flash mobs... I read a whle ago in one of JIm's B L O G s that "art has never been front page news" - he continues to display ignorance of history (Ca...See More
  • Barry Thomas Hey there's probably a real demonstrable movement - Wellington's and probably NZ's first and only going on here - why don't these dipstick commentators open their eyes and write about that set of documented actualities for once?
  • Jim Barr The 'cat' was university lecturers being prepared to speak out politically. But nothing wrong with putting things out of context if you want to stir up uninformed remarks. And hell, it worked.
  • Wells Tao thanks for putting it back in context Jim, be interesting to see if it can stay there...
  • Jim Barr Pleasure
  • Wells Tao I felt it was an accurate description/notion that fitted many contexts... hence my re framing... a very typical journo technique, nothing like having your words stuffed down your neck in a way that you never said... ahh culture..
  • Wells Tao My fav from the Bene Office was "promoting unemployment", no we weren't, but hell don't shit stick
  • Wells Tao Oh and your Number 2: " 2. In NZ at least the art market is one of the few areas where people are happy to express strong opinions about art"
  • Wells Tao "strong opinion" as long as it's not political, "strong opinion" aesthetically speaking, or "strong opinion" that agrees with the ruling majority...
  • Jim Barr That's right, otherwise we would have said "strong *political* opinions about art". How about number 6? Come on Tao, you must like number 6.
  • Wells Tao ha you want to know what I think, ha ha ha... Reasons why the art market is totally entertaining, number 6: because it is Drama and excitement. For who? For me? Am I suppose to here appreciate that it exists at all and stop complaining that... I can't get in the game cause my market is flooded with Salaried disk jockeys who get a lot more bang for their buck with people like you.. kind of excitement? When there's nothing else on the telly, hell yeah
  • Wells Tao I like number nine; "9. The “what’s it worth” conversation."
  • Jim Barr Tao you've got to stop blaming yourself for not earning a big salary.
  • Wells Tao he he he, nothing like an ad hominium to catch your breath eh Jim.
  • Jim Barr Yeah, refreshing. Now ... where was I, oh I remember. Off to annoy Tao.
  • Wells Tao Annoy! I can't stop blushing.. he's talking to me?????
  • Jim Barr Enough, you're right, it's not natural
  • Wells Tao what's not natural?
    a few seconds ago · Like

    Wells Tao We live in different worlds that is true, pity we don't talk more often.

Saturday, October 27, 2012

"Even you know the arts have been completely depoliticised. Once that cat's left the bag, the bag stays empty" Converstation with New Zealand Contemporary Art Collector Jim Barr. Makes me wonder what he thinks he's been buying?

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  • Dick Whyte likes this.
  • Laura Wells this gives me so many conflicting thoughts
  • Wells Tao Unfortunately : "3. It gives a big group of university funded artists something to not participate in (the art market) " is all the proof you need to see that Mary Barr & Jim Barr are still in the 60's.
  • Jim Barr "they are part of a closed system, the academic art world cozy little relationship. They do not have to be taken up by the market place and sold, they do not have to have a physical impact on the public, these guys already get paid and all they have to do is satisfy their boss."
  • Wells Tao Touche, but that's not the whole argument. Parakowhai anyone?
  • Wells Tao Peter Robinson anyone?
  • Wells Tao Anne Noble anyone?
  • Wells Tao Can I get a price for a public academic at your local art market? And the future looks like... what was that CNZ you want outcomes to look like businesses... no shit..
  • Jim Barr All those university based artists test themselves in the commercial sector, many others for various reasons don't
  • Wells Tao Test them selves, how quaint, I'd put it more like, take the money shut up and run.
  • Wells Tao Jim Barr , Are you seriously suggesting that the above artists , for example, promote their positions as paid academics to the public in a way that the public grasps that they are indeed employees of our esteemed public learning institutions?
  • Jim Barr That's a bit considering you started this thing mocking us for saying that the market was something that gave ".... a big group of university funded artists something to not participate in". I don't think it is a big secret that these people work in the universities. Besides who is this "public" that cares one way or the other? It's all the one percent which ever way you look at it, art or no art.
  • Jim Barr You can choose form "that's a bit rich" That's a bit slippery" or "That's a stretch"
  • Wells Tao "I don't think" about covers it. University artists are the market which is why they refuse to do the hard part of the job their paid for and take the flak for being public employees, not good for Boss. Not good for the Glamorous career veneer. Nice touch with the 1%, but your arse is showing
  • Jim Barr They are what they are state paid artists. Just like artists who takes CNZ grants, works for a public art museum or stands in line for any of the other state cash. They are all part of the State machine one way or the other. Will they bite the hand that feeds them...well maybe a nibble here and there.
  • Wells Tao yes yes let's down play the scale of the scam, the faud, the lies, he he he, all in good fun. Let's obscure the role having a salary to bank role your production plays, let's ignore the responsibilities attached to that salary, by tradition, by expectation, by law. They know not of what they do... as a heavy investor I can hear your defenses scrambling, but I'm sure you have nothing to worry about. Integrity, i can hear John Key say.. is just someones opinion.
  • Jim Barr Aw c'mon Tao, university staff haven't played critic and conscience for yonks, why would they start now. That would be like waiting for one of them to publicly comment on whether or not the Walters jury should see the work it nominates or not. University staff standing up to be counted on political issues - won't happen. Should it go back to the 60s (when they did)? Probably. Will it? Not a chance. Even you know the arts have been completely depoliticised. Once that cat's left the bag, the bag stays empty.
  • Wells Tao i make the point. What you tend to do with it is your own conscience.
  • Jim Barr Amen to that and have a good day
  • Wells Tao see ya