Criptic Critic Conscience and Known for it

Monday, February 2, 2015

The whole 'Tall Poppy' thing is a non issue. Like the "what is art" issue, it is only a means TO NOT ENGAGE in what is attempting to be presented.


The whole 'Tall Poppy' thing is a non issue. Like the "what is art" issue, it is only a means TO NOT ENGAGE in what is attempting to be presented. More often enough where these phrases are deployed it is around serious challenges to the status quo's grip of power and their ability to 'create the frames from which we perceive reality". Don't be sucked in.
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  • Draw Ward well said!
  • Barry Thomas waaaaaaaat... so you advocate never challenging the status quo? You no makin a lot of sense here bro
  • Derek Cowie And yes, well said. Success, if you only have it expressed through others is the pack and their leader the bully.
    Unlike · Reply · 1 · 4 hrs
  • Derek Cowie I think he is saying not to be sucked in by critics of anyone challenging the SQ
    Like · Reply · 1 · 4 hrs
  • Wells Tao We the public pay a lot of money for a select group to be 'artists' to be ' tall poppies' but because they hide that support they in my opinion are responsible for perpetuating these arguments at a level that is easily recycled at their lowest most debased level. We've actually paid for a platform and a discussion to happen on a lot more sophisticated, and relentless level. But that would require those in the job to ACTUALLY be able to do the job, and stand up to the public debate, transparently and be accountable for what they are saying.
    Like · Reply · 3 · 4 hrs · Edited
    • Derek Cowie We pay politicians a lot more to be wheat to be harvested
      Like · 1 · 4 hrs
    • Wells Tao I don't understand that, but guess your meaning
      Like · 1 · 4 hrs
    • Derek Cowie What amazes me about all this, is that with any personal or group dissent and questioning is a collective fear of engagement, not Catton but for her and us the possibility of intimidation and threat and within a democracy. It is our democratic right to question anything.
    • Derek Cowie within democratic capitalism, if you pay money (taxes) for something you own it you have a democratic right. The legitimate pressure from any taxpayer and in fact any citizen abiding by law and rule, given or taken is, as a right, to demand any in an e...See More
    • Wells Tao yeah a friend woke me up to this idea when he said that a fascist system has to already be in place, culturally before any charismatic despot can take over.. we have the charismatic despot.. but he's not hitler, he's a product, figurehead at the factory... invisible untouchable. And for those that care a very ordinary monster.
    • Wells Tao

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  • Karl Edward Pearce Well said wells, let's step out of the mind of others and start thinking for ourselves. When we let them enslave our minds, they don't need to enslave our bodies.
    Unlike · Reply · 1 · 4 hrs
  • Barry Thomas I just love the idea that a version of a party, a group of people act as a group and stand up for Catton's call for the right to speak and express... let's get behind that call
    Like · Reply · 2 · 4 hrs
  • Wells Tao For me the arts and the sciences have been divided and conquered by the arts failure to go into full conflict with, said religious economic dogma. The arts, for example instead of leading by example, in a way, such as Scientist Dr Mike Joy does, whose every public statement is delivered with a clear declaration that he is working from a platform provided by Massey University. Our university artists in contrast, choose to remain obscure. While privately a few have suggested to me that they would risk losing their jobs if they did promote their income, while possibly being true needs to be tested, and is certainly I believe, NOT the true cost that we the public pay for them not speaking out, as a collective, powerful SILENT body in our visible society.
    Like · Reply · 2 · 4 hrs · Edited
    • Derek Cowie Well i absolutely agree with that and it is precisely why 'The List' and 'Listers' has come to be. In my view science is suspect, corruptable. Nature, the environment IS the only truly 'open' arena to actually contest every man made construct.
    • Wells Tao

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  • Heike Ngan Let's make lollipops with 'comforting' slogans very 'artfully' contrived, then prettily and 'grabbingly' rendered on the wrappers.....just a novel way to capitalise on the mainstream pacifier-syndrome ....and then share the money-spoils with those who really care but starve for their vision and knowing. But then again, that would be immoral, and so the likes of those who wipe the goo from their eyes, and the wax from their ears so as to better see and hear could never walk that dodgy line....after all, two wrongs will never make a right, no matter what the maths books say. This then begs the question...."What is true? ... if everything we do is art?"
  • Barry Thomas Catton... a University teacher ... has delivered big time on her contract to be the conscience of society
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    • Wells Tao nah, she was 'outed", universities win, with the back handed compliment that smart people go to uni, but the general public, get the message that this is just smart people whinning. which is exactly how Key has spun it.
    • Wells Tao whining/ winning
    • Barry Thomas jeeeze you can be tricky to love Taos Art Gardens and Food Project
    • Wells Tao a "conscience" would have promoted it's economic/ political base
    • Barry Thomas have you read her speeches this week?
    • Wells Tao I'd rather not be loved bro, and instead educated by someone who knows something
    • Wells Tao I read her blog post
    • Derek Cowie Catton is almost irrelevant in this now. Hasnt the spotlight shifted to Keymedia
    • Wells Tao probably, i'm a day or two behind (whoops betraying my true interest)
    • Heike Ngan But Catton, for all her youth, knows that the honest observation of what IS right in front of her eyes is worth airing....well, I am taken in by her for one..... She answered as she honestly saw....but maybe not....maybe she is a woman with an agenda. But why not, why not have an agenda, when agenda seems like the only things this propagandist world has got?
      Unlike · 2 · 3 hrs
    • Wells Tao in my opinion if your are not a transparent propagandist, you are still an artist, reduced to relying on a system of exploitation that serves the rich and perpetuates the status quo.
    • Derek Cowie She said some stuff. Its all over the internet. Over and over. The scum bags showed up and responded and that shows the immaturity lap dog politics that is NZ. Its a gap to be exploited
    • Derek Cowie Stop trying to define art. Declare it and stick to it. The future is a soft maliable substance
    • Heike Ngan I like that Wells...'In my opinion", or otherwise said, "from my position or perspective"....This is the absolute essence of it all, the nub of it, the truth of the matter....But opinion will never override morality, and that's an inalterable fact
    • Heike Ngan Apparently it is relative these days....but then it's not really morality, is it?
    • Wells Tao i'm stuck on a Nietzschian phrase, "Concepts, the grave yard of perceptions'. There are many way's to read this line. Much to mine.
    • Wells Tao Again, another friend of mine defined it this way, that ethics is what we apply to ourselves, and morality is what we allow the other to apply to ourselves.. I think that's how he put it.. Dick Whyte?
      Like · 2 · 3 hrs
    • Heike Ngan Actually, yes Wells....morality is that shady grey of cultural doctrine....ethics are more clinical. But as a human, and not a machine, somehow morality resonates more with my conscience than cold-seeming ethics ever will.
    • Wells Tao declarations of where one sits along this sliding line slowly become apparent in debates. Paid public roles, equally as slidy, need even more declaration.
    • Wells Tao ok that about does it for zen tao, off for a walk.
      Like · 1 · 3 hrs
    • Wells Tao Thanks all for participating!
      Like · 1 · 3 hrs
    • Heike Ngan Enjoy
    • Wells Tao

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  • Derek Cowie This a long thread Wells Tao but as with so many platforms that snuggle up with philosophy semantics, and Web general Knowledge, the shape shifting dream remains virtual and seems unable to mutate or cross over. Eleanor Catton has brought them out and they have hilariously defined and exposed themselves. The Luminaries, the accolades and most importantly an artist with true conviction, talent and humility is at the heart of this. It is the holy grail that answers all questions of erhics, morality and here, freedom of speech and Barry Thomas is bang on in that chanpioning her, heralding a great woman and artist IS the point. Is Eleanor Catton a defining person bringing change and dialogue with her work and self?
    • Wells Tao yeah there is a long pattern of what I've called 'noble individuals' that have been prepared to voice these issues from time to time. I am not so interested in these individual utterances, but the system that is there, by law by taxes to engage in this area in a more systematic and routine way. The sensationalism attracted to these one off 'successes', including my own, in the end seem to amount to not much.
  • Craig Scott I thought Catton's point was to draw attention to the oozy spread of international neoliberalism.
    Unlike · Reply · 2 · 2 hrs
    • Heike Ngan Her point is simple...the fallout interestingly complex...
      Unlike · 3 · 2 hrs
    • Derek Cowie What she has done is in the public realm. She needs to be supported and affirmed by the NZ creative community
      Like · 2 · 2 hrs
    • Heike Ngan I'm with her ....these days she's the rarest of beings.....honest.
      Like · 1 · 2 hrs
    • Derek Cowie She is that Heike Ngan. For all 'our' screaming the obvious, she has bravely voiced a collective fear.
    • Derek Cowie We have a great artist in our midst
    • Wells Tao when we need to recognize it takes a great community of great artists for any artists to graduate and become a transparent propagandists.
    • Wells Tao

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    • Craig Scott Well...
      Unlike · 1 · 1 hr
    • Craig Scott ... one of the big clues that neoliberalism is bad is that a bunch of assholes really like it!
      Unlike · 1 · 1 hr
    • Kirsten Forrester Well, that was interesting. I am still haunted by my inadequacies at my last job. Trying to pick and apply new processes and technology later in life led to my becoming anxious about my, er, performance.
      Unlike · 1 · 1 hr
    • Wells Tao

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  • Craig Scott https://www.jacobinmag.com/.../06/bulletproof-neoliberalism/

    Bulletproof Neoliberalism To understand how a body of thought became an era of capitalism requires more...
    jacobinmag.com

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