Criptic Critic Conscience and Known for it

Tuesday, May 10, 2016

How many racists out there are committed to ending capitalism?


How many racists out there are committed to ending capitalism?
Wells Tao Which bit didn't you get?
Matthew George Richard Ward
Matthew George Richard Ward it's a double negative
Wells Tao
Wells Tao what does that mean?
Matthew George Richard Ward
Matthew George Richard Ward racism = white supremacy = capitalism ?
Like · Reply · 1 · 13 hrs
Wells Tao
Wells Tao Matthew George Richard Ward ending capitalism negative?
Matthew George Richard Ward
Matthew George Richard Ward what do you mean?
Matthew George Richard Ward
Matthew George Richard Ward *racism = white supremacy = capitalism*
Matthew George Richard Ward
Matthew George Richard Ward racism = white supremacy = capitalism
Matthew George Richard Ward
Matthew George Richard Ward racism = white supremacy = capitalism
Matthew George Richard Ward
Matthew George Richard Ward racism = white supremacy = capitalism
Matthew George Richard Ward
Matthew George Richard Ward racism = white supremacy = capitalism
Matthew George Richard Ward
Matthew George Richard Ward racism = white supremacy = capitalism
Matthew George Richard Ward
Matthew George Richard Ward racism = white supremacy = capitalism
Matthew George Richard Ward
Matthew George Richard Ward racism = white supremacy = capitalism
Matthew George Richard Ward
Matthew George Richard Ward racism = white supremacy = capitalism
Matthew George Richard Ward
Matthew George Richard Ward racism = white supremacy = capitalism
Matthew George Richard Ward
Matthew George Richard Ward racism = white supremacy = capitalism
Matthew George Richard Ward
Matthew George Richard Ward racism = white supremacy = capitalism
Matthew George Richard Ward
Matthew George Richard Ward racism = white supremacy = capitalism
Matthew George Richard Ward
Matthew George Richard Ward racism = white supremacy = capitalism
Matthew George Richard Ward
Matthew George Richard Ward racism = white supremacy = capitalism
Like · Reply · 1 · 11 hrs
Matthew George Richard Ward
Matthew George Richard Ward racism = white supremacy = capitalism
Matthew George Richard Ward
Matthew George Richard Ward racism = white supremacy = capitalism
Matthew George Richard Ward
Matthew George Richard Ward racism = white supremacy = capitalism
Matthew George Richard Ward
Matthew George Richard Ward racism = white supremacy = capitalism
Matthew George Richard Ward
Matthew George Richard Ward racism = white supremacy = capitalism
Matthew George Richard Ward
Matthew George Richard Ward racism = white supremacy = capitalism
Matthew George Richard Ward
Matthew George Richard Ward racism = white supremacy = capitalism
Matthew George Richard Ward
Matthew George Richard Ward racism = white supremacy = capitalismracism = white supremacy = capitalism
Matthew George Richard Ward
Matthew George Richard Ward racism = white supremacy = capitalism
Matthew George Richard Ward
Matthew George Richard Ward racism = white supremacy = capitalism
Matthew George Richard Ward
Matthew George Richard Ward racism = white supremacy = capitalism
Matthew George Richard Ward
Matthew George Richard Ward racism = white supremacy = capitalism
Matthew George Richard Ward
Matthew George Richard Ward racism = white supremacy = capitalism
Matthew George Richard Ward
Matthew George Richard Ward racism = white supremacy = capitalism
Matthew George Richard Ward
Matthew George Richard Ward racism = white supremacy = capitalism
Matthew George Richard Ward
Matthew George Richard Ward racism = white supremacy = capitalism
Matthew George Richard Ward
Matthew George Richard Ward racism = white supremacy = capitalism
Matthew George Richard Ward
Matthew George Richard Ward racism = white supremacy = capitalism
Wells Tao
Wells Tao racism is a little more complicated in my opinion
Wells Tao
Wells Tao given that few can even define 'race'
Like · Reply · 1 · 11 hrs
Wells Tao
Wells Tao what does double negative mean Matthew George Richard Ward
Matthew George Richard Ward
Matthew George Richard Ward Wells Tao the actual fuck are you kidding me?
Wells Tao
Wells Tao nope
Matthew George Richard Ward
Matthew George Richard Ward check your privilege
Wells Tao
Wells Tao I don't understand you at all
Wells Tao
Wells Tao you have an issue with double negatives?
Wells Tao
Wells Tao what are you grama mam
Matthew George Richard Ward
Matthew George Richard Ward no i have an issue if you think that "given few that can even define 'race'" i find that whole statement completely problematic. Racism cannot be defined without the idea of "race"
Wells Tao
Wells Tao ow wow do you
Wells Tao
Wells Tao how amazing
Wells Tao
Wells Tao what race are you matt?
Matthew George Richard Ward
Matthew George Richard Ward since capitalism and racism are inextricably linked, i think you should check your privilege
Matthew George Richard Ward
Matthew George Richard Ward I am considered what is "white", what is pakeha
Wells Tao
Wells Tao Matthew George Richard Ward oh so you get what i'm sayin then
Wells Tao
Wells Tao Matthew George Richard Ward what race do you consider your self?
Matthew George Richard Ward
Wells Tao
Wells Tao question mark what man
Wells Tao
Wells Tao man the point i was so cleverly making until you got on your silly high horse, was exactly the relationship between captialism and racism. FFS
Wells Tao
Wells Tao check my privledge! nice one
Like · Reply · 2 · 11 hrs
Wells Tao
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Matt Loveridge
Matt Loveridge I am...well I support its end. Committed sounds hard?
Wells Tao
Wells Tao reformed racist, come on give your self due credit
Matt Loveridge
Matt Loveridge recovering...daily struggle
Unlike · Reply · 1 · 13 hrs
Wells Tao
Wells Tao easier on the rest of us, compared to denial, says reformed racist
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Wells Tao
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Steven William Goodfellow
Steven William Goodfellow it sounds promising depending on what system you propose to replace it with
Wells Tao
Wells Tao Democratic Enterprise! http://democracyatwork.info/
Hello. I want to tell you a story briefly of the Chobani Corporation, a company with 2000 employees that…
democracyatwork.info
Steven William Goodfellow
Steven William Goodfellow i like that, i already function that way, i caught 8 fish yesterday and gave away seven. did an electrical job today and didnt charge for the parts cause he made me a sandwich. Share the wealth!
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Wells Tao
Wells Tao cool, what this is talking about is workers deciding democratically how to spent the profit made on their labour, instead of leaving that to the means of production / boss owners. Ya!
Wells Tao
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Nathan Thompson
Nathan Thompson Fascinating question....Chairman Mao?
Wells Tao
Wells Tao history and the present China I think will demonstrate that they be bloody amazing capitalists.
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Wells Tao
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Jacob M Sua
Jacob M Sua Corporatism?
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Wells Tao
Wells Tao Yes there will be i'm sure out there a corporate / charity out there ending racism, and getting paid to do it. Think of the children
Jacob M Sua
Jacob M Sua Well I believe in ending Corporatism.
Wells Tao
Wells Tao cool, gotta a plan, I do.
Wells Tao
Wells Tao http://www.democracyatwork.info/about
About Democracy at Work (d@w)
democracyatwork.info
Jacob M Sua
Jacob M Sua Hmmmmmmmm.....I'll read this.
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Wells Tao
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Matthew George Richard Ward
Matthew George Richard Ward is it not clear to you that capitalism is inherently racist .... ?
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Wells Tao man enough with the arse to mouth shit
Matthew George Richard Ward
Matthew George Richard Ward
Matthew George Richard Ward you don't have anything to say?
Wells Tao
Wells Tao to me your just babbling, but please take all the rope you want
Matthew George Richard Ward
Matthew George Richard Ward Great with the rude comments... see ya man
Wells Tao
Wells Tao are you serious? I don't get ya
Matthew George Richard Ward
Wells Tao
Wells Tao foh?
Matthew George Richard Ward
Matthew George Richard Ward FUCK OUT OF HERE
Wells Tao
Wells Tao my page you leave
Wells Tao
Wells Tao you ok, you sound a little tense
Matthew George Richard Ward
Matthew George Richard Ward “But more importantly, racism is a key mechanism for the stabilization of capitalism and the legitimization of inequality.”

-Michael Reich, Professor of Political Economy at U.C. Berkeley
Wells Tao
Wells Tao Matthew George Richard Ward I really think you don't get my original statement. At least to my mind, it confirms your above statement.
Wells Tao
Wells Tao captalism doesn't want to end racism.
Matthew George Richard Ward
Matthew George Richard Ward you refused to explain to me what you meant
Wells Tao
Wells Tao you refused to use your brain
Matthew George Richard Ward
Matthew George Richard Ward you need to check your ableism in the mean time as well as your white privilege
Wells Tao
Wells Tao ableism? was that
Alx Mknn
Matthew George Richard Ward
Matthew George Richard Ward "use your brain" is an ableist slur. .... it's discriminatory, you are telling me i have a disability?
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Wells Tao
Wells Tao Alx Mknn a critic even more boring than the content they're supposedly criticizing
Wells Tao
Wells Tao
Wells Tao yes you have a disability, you are too cute
Wells Tao
Wells Tao and you know it
Alx Mknn
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Matthew George Richard Ward
Matthew George Richard Ward
Matthew George Richard Ward this anti-intellectualism is killing me right now...
Alx Mknn
Alx Mknn i think your content is some of my most enjoyed on facebook, im just sick of people being dicks to each other... hahahaha
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Wells Tao
Wells Tao Alx Mknn well I think a lot of good stuff can often start with dicks
Wells Tao
Wells Tao Alx Mknn help me to not be a dick to Matthew, I am struggling
Mia Iman
Mia Iman Wells are you disputing capitalism is inherently racist/white supremacist?
Like · Reply · 1 · 11 hrs
Wells Tao
Wells Tao Mia Iman yes as racism is not exclusively white, but definitely supporting capitalism
Alx Mknn
Alx Mknn haha, nice. yes. i have no problem with people being... umm robust.... and yeah it totally think its important to be so. i believe i am. but as a person with a dominantly introverted nature i do think one of the biggest probs is people on the same side of an issue (give or take whatever bits) being straight up dix to each other. top reason i dropped out of identifing as an anarcho punk when i was teen, so so many dix. hahaha
Matthew George Richard Ward
Mia Iman
Mia Iman racism was invented by white american colonialists to defend the transatlantic slave trade and provide fuel for a white supremacist capitalist system... white people cannot experience racism
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Mia Iman
Mia Iman racism = systemic power + racial prejudice. there are no systems in place that disenfranchise white people for being white
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Wells Tao
Wells Tao Mia Iman capitalism loves more than just white people.
Wells Tao
Wells Tao Korea for example has racism against white people, but are wonderful capitlaists
Matthew George Richard Ward
Matthew George Richard Ward Personifying capitalism is a fucking myth
Like · Reply · 1 · 10 hrs
Mia Iman
Mia Iman there are rich POC but capitalism itself is fueled by white supremacy
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Mia Iman
Mia Iman i question what you deem as racism
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Wells Tao
Wells Tao ok well I may agree with you there in terms that white supremacy "fuels' capitalism
Alx Mknn
Alx Mknn so, out of pure conversational practicality; what term would one use to define prejudice against white people? because we can all agree 'reverse racism' isnt a thing. i think...
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Wells Tao
Wells Tao ah yes that 's the hornets nest i'm hitting
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Alx Mknn
Alx Mknn bzzzzz!
Mia Iman
Mia Iman prejudice against white people is just that -- prejudice. but prejudice against white people is often a defense mechanism after a lifetime of being faced with white supremacy as a person of color
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Matthew George Richard Ward
Matthew George Richard Ward Wells Tao you aren't hitting shit to be honest
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Matthew George Richard Ward
Matthew George Richard Ward or may be you did hit "shit"
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Wells Tao
Wells Tao I'm not above my shit,
Matthew George Richard Ward
Matthew George Richard Ward CATCH THESE HANDS !
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Alx Mknn
Alx Mknn and straight up hate? ofcourse, i understand the point of why poc might develop that predj or hate. but im just interested in the terminology i guess.
Wells Tao
Wells Tao Mia Iman while I agree with your thesis about the differences between racism and privilege, and also agree that reverse racism sums up an ignorant position, I don't believe I have contradicted that with my statement, " How many racists out there are committed to ending capitalism?" But to the contrary draw attention to the intrinsic relationship between racism, capitalism and this larger unfolding mess, the relationship between nationalities, race or ethnicity and global capitalism.
Wells Tao
Wells Tao sitting on your face matt
Mia Iman
Mia Iman i was confused at the context of your original post but okay
Wells Tao
Wells Tao Mia Iman I asked for it
Wells Tao
Wells Tao Alx Mknn so for convo sakes, Say i'm in Korea as a white guy, a minority, I've still got all kinds of white privilege, but in my experience when it comes to marriage, breeding, I'm racially prejudiced against because I am not the preferred Korean. Now is this because Korea practices it's own form of "white supremacy" (fed by capitalism), I think so. But you guys are saying that's not what's happening right?
Alx Mknn
Alx Mknn yeah, the way i see it (sorry, side stepping your good example a bit), is that words/terms can be used in certain ways in academia or activism but the etymological simplicity of a word is what im interested in... so yeah, i think that is racism. due to the words simple breakdown. but, i totally agree with the critical approach to the word matt/mia pose... if history and current day to day life suggest anything, its that racism is white.
Wells Tao
Wells Tao I think that I read somewhere that white isn't a race, its the absence of one,... not sure where that fits, but this idea that a white person can be white, as if they didn't have an ethnicity or specific inherited culture is what I think bugs me about Matts equation. It some how paint over that white isn't a race but more of a position. Embodied often in the way the phrase "whitey" is used to title anyone in the Capitalist mainstream approach regardless of ethnicity.
Alx Mknn
Alx Mknn dunno, i live in greece where its plainly accepted to call a greek a 'white' person, but a greek is certainly an ethnicity type, if not beautifully variable.... like any ethnicity i guess. i totally see that 'white' isnt often an ethnicity in places like NZ or the US tho! im certainly a good example of that. biggest mongrel non-breed ever
Wells Tao
Wells Tao well that's interesting, you seem to be supporting my thesis that those in the dominant power position thanks to capitalism call themselves 'white' regardless of ethnicity..
Wells Tao
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Dot Mcnaught
Dot Mcnaught marx 'the modern theory of colonisation' (ii am not a marxist but i do think this is valid to this conversation and it makes sense to me “If,” says Wakefield, “all members of the society are supposed to possess equal portions of capital... no man would have a motive for accumulating more capital than he could use with his own hands. This is to some extent the case in new American settlements, where a passion for owning land prevents the existence of a class of labourers for hire.” [6] So long, therefore, as the labourer can accumulate for himself — and this he can do so long as he remains possessor of his means of production — capitalist accumulation and the capitalistic mode of production are impossible. The class of wage labourers, essential to these, is wanting. How, then, in old Europe, was the expropriation of the labourer from his conditions of labour, i.e., the co-existence of capital and wage labour, brought about? By a social contract of a quite original kind. “Mankind have adopted a... simple contrivance for promoting the accumulation of capital,” which, of course, since the time of Adam, floated in their imagination, floated in their imagination as the sole and final end of their existence: “they have divided themselves into owners of capital and owners of labour.... The division was the result of concert and combination.” [7] In one word: the mass of mankind expropriated itself in honor of the “accumulation of capital.” Now, one would think that this instinct of self-denying fanaticism would give itself full fling especially in the Colonies, where alone exist the men and conditions that could turn a social contract from a dream to a reality. But why, then, should “systematic colonisation” be called in to replace its opposite, spontaneous, unregulated colonisation? But - but - “In the Northern States of the American Union; it may be doubted whether so many as a tenth of the people would fall under the description of hired labourers.... In England... the labouring class compose the bulk of the people.” [8] Nay, the impulse to self-expropriation on the part of labouring humanity for the glory of capital, exists so little that slavery, according to Wakefield himself, is the sole natural basis of Colonial wealth. His systematic colonisation is a mere pis aller, since he unfortunately has to do with free men, not with slaves. “The first Spanish settlers in Saint Domingo did not obtain labourers from Spain. But, without labourers, their capital must have perished, or at least, must soon have been diminished to that small amount which each individual could employ with his own hands. This has actually occurred in the last Colony founded by England — the Swan River Settlement — where a great mass of capital, of seeds, implements, and cattle, has perished for want of labourers to use it, and where no settler has preserved much more capital than he can employ with his own hands.” [9]
Wells Tao
Wells Tao i wouldn't read that if you paid me
Wells Tao
Wells Tao Double Negative!
Dot Mcnaught
Dot Mcnaught its valid to this conversation and it makes to sense
Like · Reply · 1 · 11 hrs
Dot Mcnaught
Dot Mcnaught and even though im not marxist it doesnt mean he didnt say any valid things
Wells Tao
Wells Tao care to summarise?
Dot Mcnaught
Dot Mcnaught basically when coming to the colonies the landowners from England realised they couldnt hold the labourer's they had bought over with them because they could now acquire land so they needed to create a new set of workers , the newly colonised (due to different value sets) wouldnt work either hence the beginning of slavery and other underhand means of acquiring workers
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Wells Tao
Wells Tao nice, cheers. What do you think of this http://www.democracyatwork.info/about
About Democracy at Work (d@w)
democracyatwork.info
Dot Mcnaught
Dot Mcnaught it looks interesting an i will look into it further thanks Wells Tao smile emoticon
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Wells Tao
Wells Tao Dot Mcnaught you are welcome
Dot Mcnaught
Dot Mcnaught smile emoticon
Wells Tao
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Wells Tao
Wells Tao The original post above came out of my musings over a conversation I had on the Socialists FB page about Zizek, who they felt was a racist. And it got me thinking about prejudice, the intimacy of it, and the way it manifests as questions, that are slammed so hard, and why is that...
Edward Vanson
Edward Vanson Wells Tao and Matthew George Richard ward both miss the point the capitalism is essentially monoist, given capital = of the head. leading us to complete ownership by one.
Wells Tao
Wells Tao well I think for my money, Deluze and Guitari were more accurate when they said something about how the very term Capitalism fails to capture what it actually does. That this is part of its source as a schizophrenic schism,
Wells Tao
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Sarah Riley-c
Sarah Riley-c Simple, just reflect back to Hitler. . He went as far as mutating children to create the perfect race while actively processing to wipe out an entire race.. While capitalism tends to be thought of as American think about where the banking system originated.
Wells Tao
Wells Tao not sure what yur saying here Sarah Riley-c, or what you are responding to
Sarah Riley-c
Sarah Riley-c Neither lol...
Haha nah, your post instantly made me think of facism and it's corporate corruption..
I'll give you the answer when it comes, I'm onto something and it will connect back to your question..
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Sarah Riley-c
Sarah Riley-c BTW I've not read any comments on here so I was merely responding to your post, not the thread.
Will have a read through the comments shortly, bet it's interesting
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Wells Tao
Wells Tao Sarah Riley-c thanks for that clarification
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Sarah Riley-c
Sarah Riley-c
Sarah Riley-c After two hours of revising and further research on the history of capitalism. History of racism and the myth of socialism..
My conclusion to your answer would be : zero.. the two need each other to exist..
http://www.bolshevik.org/.../no12capitalismandracism.html
It is hard for most people to accept that racial prejudice and antagonism, pervasive phenomena of modern life, have not been permanent features of human society. Yet the very concept of "race," and the ideology and practice of racism are relatively modern.
bolshevik.org
Sarah Riley-c
Sarah Riley-c Hitler was the exaggeration of Capitalism displaying the propaganda of it to being Socialism. . He kept all the bankers alive..
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Wells Tao
Wells Tao Sarah Riley-c he was the bankers bulldog, to keep the peasant commies from visiting them in their beds
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Wells Tao
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Richard B. Keys
Richard B. Keys I totally reckon your missing the point. Or at least your totally missing MY point lol, which in more or less what Ian was trying to argue as well.
Wells Tao whole lot of missing points there Richard B. Keys, something about the racism subject that brings out the swirly. Of course there are plenty of others..
Richard B. Keys
Richard B. Keys Well I don't think he is racist. Or irrelevant as a theorist of ideology.

But I think the political positions/programme he posits as per his refugee argument, are fraught.
Wells Tao
Wells Tao Well Richard B. Keys I certainly didn't catch you saying that in that discussion, that he was not a racist. Would have been easy enough to say it. I did. And it was the center of what we were talking about. I agree that his ideas around refugees are difficult/ fraught, but that hardly discredits them as ideas, as they appeared to me to hardly original ideas, but in the presents context, a kind of 'moderateness' was being skteched at. Even though it doesn't go far enough, I thought he was preaching to those that except far more extremes, like the way detention centers are tolerated as perfectly acceptable by the masses NOW.. I may be wrong.
Richard B. Keys
Richard B. Keys From my perspective the *generalised* argument wether he is or not racist, is secondary to the concrete positions he was taking. I.E make your own conclusions about the R word.
Richard B. Keys
Richard B. Keys Well he clearly likes to troll the polite liberal left. But still, as I was saying he ends up justifying a neo-reactionary position through his sophistry.
Wells Tao
Wells Tao you'r squirming
Wells Tao
Wells Tao smile emoticon
Richard B. Keys
Richard B. Keys Basically my read on it is that the whole thing is him attempting to critique liberal cosmopolitanism via Lacan. Which somehow sees him end up justifying neo-reactionary conservative policy in part.
Wells Tao
Wells Tao i think he's trying to articulate action that is drenched in intense un articulated self serving ideas that are actually self serving capitalism. And the dance between the two pisses everyone off.
Richard B. Keys
Richard B. Keys Well that would be the Lacanian gesture right.

But I mean he attempts to do that all the time in regard to... gender, race, etc. I am not sure how constructive it is half the time TBH.
Wells Tao
Wells Tao constructive in a capitalist sense?
Richard B. Keys
Richard B. Keys I still don't see how this gesture (succesfull or not relates to his geo-political positions) relates to the critique.
Richard B. Keys
Richard B. Keys What does this have to do with capitalism with a big C.

Ala Chomsky and the khmer rouge etc, you can be a "effective" critique of capitalism and still assert/back bad geo-political positions.
Wells Tao
Wells Tao I think it wouldl help me, maybe help the discssion if we examine specific texts in specific contexts, otherwise, we're pissing in the wind...
Richard B. Keys
Richard B. Keys Thats is why I invited you to read the various texts.
Richard B. Keys
Richard B. Keys If I have the time, I will bring a few of them up specifically, with selected passages.
Wells Tao
Wells Tao well that's real nice of you, but if yu've done the reading how about providing the key bits that bug you
Wells Tao
Wells Tao do as you like, don't do it for me

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