precisAs Hillary Clinton becomes the presumptive nominee for the Democratic Party, Empire Files host Abby Martin and TRNN Senior Paul Jay sit down to discuss what Sanders should do next.
Both Jay and Martin agree that Clinton is a dangerous neoconservative who should not be defended.
But they disagree over whether Sanders should throw his energy into running a third party campaign, or work to strategically defeat Trump.
"Look," says Martin. "He's, what, 74 years old? Time is running out. We don't have time, Paul. I know that we're going to disagree on this, but I think that Bernie should say, F it. I'm going to go for it, because the country can't afford another four years of Clinton, or another eight years of Clinton, or a Trump presidency."
"If Bernie ran I only see one, two possible scenarios, if he runs as a third party," says Jay. "One, he doesn't do very well, and is kind of irrelevant, and it fizzles out. The best case scenario is he does really well, and helps elect Trump."
Martin thinks that an independent run by Sanders could help legitimize third parties, "taking us out of the corporate duopoly and this two-party dictatorship."
"The problem is I've talked to a lot of people like Nader, like Kshama Sawant, a lot of people who just say, look, he hasn't been organizing," says Martin. "A lot of the people in the Sanders campaign hasn't really been on the ground organizing with activists. So where is that campaign momentum going to go? I just hope to God it doesn't die with the election."
Jay thinks that Sanders should explicitly call Clinton the "lesser evil" so that people vote without illusions. But he also believes the work of a mass movement is now up to ordinary people.
"I don't think it can be left to Sanders and his team. A lot of this movement was spontaneous to begin with. It never was top-down," says Jay. "It's going to be up to those people to create the organizational structure to keep going. They can't depend on the Sanders thing for doing it."