Caoimhe Macfehin - Hypothetically, say I was an artist that survived by trading or gifting art, and was supported by a community which provided food/shelter/art supplies, and I never interacted directly with money. Is it the case that I’m still a capitalist if the community that supports me is capitalist? Do I become a non-capitalist if that community becomes non-capitalist? Can you have self-contained non-capitalism? Or does a capitalist interaction anywhere in the supply chain render the whole world capitalist? I have no conclusions about this, just Curious about your buzz on this!
Wells Tao - Thanks, I'll have a go, at each of your question marks:
1. For me it would be determined by how that community that supported you created its wealth. If it was socialist for example and promoted this difference from the invisible back drop of everyday late capitalism, then no I don't believe you would be a capitalist. Money, profit is not the enemy of a workers co-op that gets to vote on where and who profit is spent! Creating, images and institutions that are influencing a socialist presence in the world, like free schools, healthcare, etc etc. We vote in NZ democracy in an important way, on how to spend our collective collected wealth. This is Democratic Socialism. My issue is that this existing democratic economy has given away the playing field by producing such poor PR and allowing itself to be dominated by capitalists and capitalist values, like 'growth at any cost, etcetc".
2. Yes
3. Yes
4. For me it's not about eliminating capitalism. At all. It's about competing (and beating!) capitalism for profit. So self-isolation is not a goal. As you look around it's obvious Democratic Socialists know how to spend profit on others. In a way Rich individual Capitalists and their institutions appear do in half arsed random tiny spurts.
5. There are Socialist economies existing right now in the world that go to the neutral marketplace and make a buck. There is variety out there it's just the appearance of things that is totally dominated by a capitalist agenda that suits itself to soak the landscape in itself. How to have a democratic state economy that provides a level of freedom from the constraints of commercialization and not turn into an authority that can not listen and respond constructively to constructive criticism? Universities I feel have the responsibility to fully engage with this balancing of democratic power. Creativity, Reason, logic, evidence and due process, and a vividly played role as critic and conscience of broader society, capitalist and socialist communities.
I wondered about this, how can the 'self' employed be socialist? I ended up changing the parameters somewhat, and haven't looked back. What I realised is that no one exists on their own financially. That all people are in financial arrangements with some thing else. So it wasn't a case of individuals being 'free' 'self made' 'independent' and all the rest of the noble goals, capitalist hollowed out words blowing empty. What I seek to do is raise the appearance of this base relationship and instead of letting it default to invisible unsaid capitalism, claim the space, label myself, identify myself, my economy, my relationship as non capitalist. If I practice sharing my wealth equally, time, space and money with an other or others, if I practice consensus democracy on how to spend the profit generated between us, then we are socialists already. What's missing is the ability for another socialist to see us and be able to build a physical and mental connection of interlaced communities of socialist practicing non capitalists.
Nandor Tanczos - There is a difference between living in a capitalist system and being a capitalist ie generating wealth through the appropriation of peoples labour. Just as lots of people in the USSR were not communists.
Wells Tao - yes. there is a difference but one supports the other in that they are not a different economic system
Wells Tao - invisible/ silent complicitness gives capitalism consent to be the invisible/ silent backdrop of all transactions. When this is not true, there Are worker co-op's and socialist (economically) countries that are doing business at the market place, all the time.
Wells Tao - ui's lip balm is a workers co-op
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